On Gardening
Featuring an interview with Palita of Pink Salt Kitchens!
Welcome to another interview with a fabulously talented friend of mine. Save this one for when you have some time—it’s a great chat, and you’ll want to read every word! See you here on Friday for one bowl brownie recipe!
Born in Bloomington, Illinois, Palita Sriratana spent every summer in Thailand, where she nurtured a love of food from a young age through her grandmother and aunts, who taught her how to cook after her grandmother passed away when Palita was 6. After a few career changes, Palita opened her dream restaurant, Pink Salt, in a food hall in Chicago in 2019, which she describes as an amazing but short-lived experience. Over the course of the pandemic, Palita shifted her focus to pop-ups and launched a line of Thai chili jam, Nam Prik Pao, which you’ve heard me rave about before. She continues to do pop-ups and hopes to open a restaurant again soon. I sat down with Palita to chat about gardening, cooking inspiration, and giving from abundance. You can read our conversation below.
This conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.
Laura Scherb: So how did you get into gardening?
Palita Sriratana: There's a lot of Thai ingredients that we don't grow here. So gardening to me was kind of just getting access and inspiration continuously for my own cooking. It was a COVID hobby, and I wanted to continuously feel inspired by the things I grew.
LS: What did you grow the first year?
PS: So, a big one was basil. I grew Thai morning glory, Thai eggplant…there's so many Thai eggplants in Thai cuisine, so I grew a lot of those. Thai chilies, Thai bird's eye chilies…there's so many varieties of chilies, too. There's one chili, which is called prik ki nuu that we jokingly call the rat poop chile.
LS: Where does that come from?
PS: Because it looks like a little rat poop! It's tiny, just like little rat poops. They're delicious, slightly more sweet. I also grew American varieties. I don't know; one year I grew like seven basils. I just wanted to compare them all. I am a self-taught cook, so it was a lot of guessing and experimenting and kind of breaking down that barrier of being able to see the full cycle.
I grew a lot of cilantro. In Thai cooking, we use everything from the root to the seeds. I think in American grocery stores, you don't often see the root. But for Thai cuisine, we pound garlic and coriander roots to make the base of soups and marinades. So just being able to get that was different for the flavor profile change. I could access it in Thailand, but I couldn't get it here. Cilantro was really easy to grow. So it's really nice to do that. And then once it grew—well, I didn't know what bolting was until the first year.
LS: That's a hard lesson I'm just learning.
PS: Yeah, so my cilantro bolted. And my mom happened to be visiting that weekend and told me that she and my grandma used to like eating the green coriander seeds. Even as a former scientist, all of this growing cycle stuff should be, like, pretty apparent, but it was still very new. So I was able to clip the seeds. And it was totally different than the dry coriander seeds that we bought, so I was just able to use it as a garnish in different dishes, like on a Thai-style turmeric rice. Phenomenal. These are all things that I would not have readily explored had I not grown stuff.
LS: Totally, totally. Do you feel like it sort of allowed you to, you know, not only discover new ways that your mom or grandma would have used or eaten certain plants, but also, like, get inspired to make different recipes based on what you were growing?
PS: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, so a lot of Thai cuisine is pounding pastes together the old fashioned way. My mom grew up in a more rural place, about an hour north of Bangkok and—I feel like I'm the last generation that will remember this—I remember waking up to the sound of mortars pounding, taking spices and roots and combining it together to be a paste. And it was a bit labor intensive, but it requires really fresh products, like turmeric, galangal, shrimp paste... And so being able to get all these things, I was finally able to explore more than the narrow scope that's here. There's some limitations of cooking, you know, like making green curry—you need to make it with a Makrut lime. And just being able to get the lime. I didn't have that before. That's what makes green curry green.
LS: Do you grow Makrut limes now?
PS: I do. I've actually always had the fruit tree ever since I was a kid, actually.
LS: Like inside?
PS: Inside, take it outside, repot it, bring it back inside. My mom always had one. I ended up getting three when I had a restaurant. And I would just trim it off time to time. But it did not keep up with the needs of the restaurant nor did it fruit because it wasn't my focus to grow the tree, it was to run a restaurant. Right now, we have a rooftop, and so it went on the rooftop.
Another thing I also want to note is as much as I do talk about cooking, my mom actually did not cook. I think she has a really wonderful palate. Her family has been very generous in teaching me how to cook and my grandma loved to cook, but she died before she could actually teach me. So you know, sometimes the narrative of like, “oh, did your grandma and your mom cook” can be a little bit restricting because my cooking is also my journey. I’m fortunate to have a strong taste memory of my grandma's cooking, but I don't remember exactly. It's been kind of fun to recreate them, and when I make stuff so my cousins are like “oh, this actually kind of tastes like what your grandma would make.” I think we all have the same palate.
LS: Oh, that's really cool. That feels like a very deep spiritual connection.
PS: Yeah, I think it's been something really special. And also, Thai families' palates are so different. Southern Thai food is punchier, spicy, bold, think things like black peppercorn, and some Malaysian influence. Central Thai food could be a little bit sweet. And then Northern Thai food is really spicy and sour, and even though my family is Central Thai, we tend to be more towards spicy/sour, maybe because they're from more rural communities. And then even when you're served Thai food, on the table, you're a given kind of like a condiment caddy with vinegar, roasted chilies, sugar, fish sauce. So you might have a palate like this and the chef may have a palate like that, but we're not offended—we put the sauce thing on the table so you can still narrow it down because everyone is so specific. Some families just prefer super sweet. And then some just like kind of salty or mild. Some families love super spicy—that's my family.
LS: Did any of that family palate go into creating the Nam Prik Pao?
PS: Absolutely. My family palate is very spicy. My oldest brother loves spice, my mom loves heat—I forgot how spicy we like it, so, like, the first iteration of Nam Prik Pao was so spicy. And not to say that the one that's out now is tamed down by any means! It just has a lot more applications, but the original heat will come back in its' spiciest form. I have to remind myself, and also with Pink Salt food, I'll think, oh, yeah, this tastes great. And then, you know, I'll check with my sous who's like…this might be a lot.
LS: Oh, yeah, you bring the heat, but it's so delicious. And it is so balanced and it's such an interesting blend of flavors. I forget where we were, you and I, but someone was like, “oh, so it's like a chili crisp?” And I was like, no, this is spicy. And it's so different. And maybe it's because of the sweetness that you get underlying that. It's so good.
PS: Yep, that's tamarind and coconut sugar and roasted shrimp paste, fish sauce...well, I guess I can't tell all my secrets but lots of caramelized garlic and shallots and all of it. So it just hits all the notes—tangy, sour, hot.
LS: I actually just had on a pizza last night. Okay, sorry, so let's go back to the plants that you grow. On any given day, what are you going up there to harvest?
PS: The main things are, right now, obviously tomatoes. I was not a tomato fan until I started gardening. I knew I only liked from from the farmers market. And now when I grow them because they they're just so wonderful. I love edible flowers. I know that sounds so predictable, but who doesn't love just like flowers on stuff just because you can! Tons and tons of basil—I make pesto for the year. Oh! Mexican sour gherkins!
LS: What?!
PS: Yeah! You just start growing all this stuff that would not make sense to sell in the grocery store—what I choose to grow is stuff I know I cannot buy with ease. So, Mexican sour gherkins. They are the size of tiny grapes, but they're little cucumbers, tangy and so fun and adorable. I have a huge variety of chilies. I don't know why I grew so many chilies. It’s nice to see all the differences. So I'll roast them and I'll make some kind of like pounded dips. Those are inspired by the Isaan Region. Speckled trout lettuce. Absolutely beautiful lettuces. They're just speckled red, they're delicate, and to be able to just go upstairs and pick a head and just eat it…they're so sweet and delicious.
LS: Has it changed your perspective on produce at all to grow some of it yourself? You said this is a new-ish hobby since COVID?
PS: It's a newish hobby, but when Pink Salt was open, I worked with local farmers a lot. I grew up also in rural Illinois. And my dad's patients were farmers or gardeners so they would give us whatever was extra from their garden. And at first I was like, man, why are they giving us all this stuff? This is so nice, so generous, but they really don't have to. But now, I get that it's so nice to garden from abundance and to be able to share. I grew up with a really deep respect too because I started to understand early that the corn they're giving us tastes so much different than the corn that you buy at Jewel. And then when Pink Salt opened, I worked with local farmers to to get beautiful pink radicchio—imagine, like, rose colored radicchio.
LS: So on brand I love it!
PS: Yeah! And I remember getting that and then eating grocery store radicchio a day later, and I was like, oh my gosh, okay. Even radicchio tastes different. So I always just loved it. And so being able to grow it myself and fully understand the seasons and all the cycles—doing it yourself gives you a whole different understanding. But I've always loved it, I've always appreciated it. At my mom’s family’s house in Thailand, my great-grandparents were architects, and they owned some land and they actually grew durian. I know that there's fruit farmers in our family, and we still have durian. Not enough to sell, but I know, my mom's family will take it and gift it to people.
LS: I love what you said about like giving from an abundance that you've grown. That is such a beautiful thing to realize and appreciate and you truly, like, don't understand that until you grow something yourself and you see how much one plant can give you.
PS: Absolutely. My first year, I thought I'll just grow only what I can eat. So utilitarian. I'm just going to grow peppers and lettuces and and herbs. But one of my friends gave me a dahlia, which don’t bloom until late in the summer. So here I am, just kind of watering this dumb dahlia for three months, and then all of a sudden, it just starts exploding with flowers, like the size of my hand. And I was like, oh my god, this is amazing.
And then my friend was like, make sure you pick up the bulb and you save it and you store it somewhere dry. So I saved it. I had all these bulbs. And then I got on gardening groups on Facebook, where people share and swap and there's always like that little garden conversation when you meet with people in the neighborhood. I love how it’s just “take what you need,” like the honesty and operating from abundance—there's no need to go to the store. But yeah, the second year, I just started growing so many flowers, and so I was able to share and trade.
LS: Such a nice thing.
PS: Yeah. And I bought two rose bushes. And that was one of the most satisfying things. Oh my gosh, it was so beautiful. And my Makrut lime trees. And then I am…I think it's called grafting, grafting them to give to others.
LS: That's amazing. It's so cool that you're able to give that to others too. Because it just, like, continues the story.
PS: It is so fun being able to share. I mean, there's no way I can eat this many peppers. At the end of the fall last year, when I was breaking down the garden, I just took all the peppers and made fermented chili garlic hot sauce, just being able to share that—I now understand why my dad's patients were like, here's all this stuff. We would have pounds and pounds of like, purple, white, and classic asparagus. Just so sweet and so generous of them just because it was really just such a love of gardening. I love how much also people are willing to share their seedlings. I think it's just a really great practice to build community.
LS: Totally. I think I told you that we're doing a garden in a plot this year, and I'm just like touched by how generous people have been, giving us extra plants and food. It’s beautiful.
PS: It's beautiful. It's delicious. It's thoughtful. It's food. And if you can just go to your garden plot (which I know is a privilege in itself) and get something so delicate as squash flower. I'm like, wow, you can grow this. And then once you're in the rhythm of gardening, it feels much more free. But you know, the first year you're buying like 20 bags of dirt. You're like, what am I doing?
LS: Yeah. And you're also just like, second guessing everything. And you have no idea what you're doing.
PS: It's kind of fun. Lots of experimenting. I think there's also a lot of life parallels.
LS: Yeah. Like, just take a deep breath. Go dig around in the dirt. You'll feel better.
PS: These are the important things. It is a labor of love.
LS: I have maybe what is the dumb question. So you were talking about some of the things that you wanted to grow your first year being things that you couldn't find in this area. Are there any farms within, I'll say like the greater Chicagoland area, who focus on like growing lesser known varieties or Thai varieties?
PS: Yes. Froggy Meadow Farms, Hinata Farms, who does really beautiful, Japanese-centric produce, Beth Ann Eccles of Green Acres Farm…you can't play favorites; I love all of them. Iron Creek Farms has lettuces that are just out of this world, beautiful frisées. They supplied my restaurant with all the lettuces. Closed Loop Farms is doing absolutely amazing things, too. Adam is an unsung hero.
There's no Thai specific ones, however, I think there's a lot coming in from Florida as Vietnamese farmers are buying land there. I will say that as much as I'm sad that some farms are kind of disappearing, at the same time, you can now find some things. Maybe it's the curiosity or the widespread ability to grow some type produce. Like if you go to Talard in Andersonville, you can now find betel leaves. I couldn't find betel leaves when I was a kid. So there are obviously improvements or people were like, genuinely curious. It’s push and shove. I don't want to say it's completely dying off. But I mean, also the whole agriculture scape is tough.
LS: It really is. And that's I think that's part of why I so love logging onto Instagram and seeing your garden content because it's so cool to see someone who I think of as a culinary goddess grow things and then transform them into these beautiful dishes. It’s so special.
PS: Thank you. It's definitely a good mind reset. But even on the days that I don't feel like cooking, to go upstairs and to be able to explore and understand why certain things taste a certain way and understand where it came from and why it tastes so fresh is a big deal. Like, you know, buying young ginger here for $30 a pound doesn't make sense. To a huge degree, being able to grow it means I can fearlessly experiment and have a different experience.
LS: It is a joy to watch you do that on social media and also to be able to chat with you about this. Tell people where to follow you to see all this wonderful content.
PS: You can follow me at @hipalita for my personal content, cooking adventures and obviously, gardening and then purely for pop ups and events. You can follow me at @pinksaltkitchen—that is where you can buy and purchase Nam Prik Pao sauce.
LS: Thank you for letting me pick your brain!
PS: Anytime. Anything for you.
Thanks for reading! More exciting interviews coming your way.